A PvP Evaluation on Neighborhood Day Quagsire and new Clodsire!

28 Min Read

Howdy of us! Time for one more double characteristic for November 2023 Neighborhood Day! I do know these days I've been getting these out only a couple days earlier than the occasion, however this time we're getting an early look. For causes we are going to quickly get into, I felt it was vital to get this assessment on the market with loads of time to spare and shuffled my schedule to try to achieve this. Let's do a fast overview with our Backside Line Up Entrance after which get into the evaluation and dialogue.


  • Excellent news first: Clodsire has loopy good bulk — like Azumarill/Registeel/Cresselia good — and a fairly good defensive typing.
  • Different excellent news: Quagsire can completely make good use of its new Neighborhood Day transfer. That is one you're going to wish to have.
  • On the draw back, Clodsire has suffered a double transfer nerf only a week earlier than its launch. We'll focus on this, at size, however suffice to say that it simply shed plenty of the wins that had folks so enthusiastic about it.
  • Paldean Wooper nonetheless appears to be like very attention-grabbing for Little League, although… assuming it doesn't endure the same nerf.

Alright, now the evaluation, beginning proper up entrance with the all-new Paldean mudder.

CLODSIRE Stats and Strikes



Nice League Stats

Assault Protection HP
(93 Excessive Stat Product)
(121 Excessive Stat Product)
(213 Excessive Stat Product)

(Highest Stat Product IVs: 0-14-13, 1500 CP, Stage 30.5)

Extremely League Stats

Assault Protection HP
119 139 245

(Assuming 15-15-15 IVs; CP 2207 at Stage 50)

So the instant notable is the insane bulk. In Nice League, Clodsire has actually High Ten HP, and is within the high dozen in total stat product. It's proper up there with Azumarill, Cresselia, and Registeel, and higher than recognized tanks like Araquanid, Alomomomomola, Steelix, Galarian Stunfisk, Diggersby, Jumpluff, and Lickitung.


  • Mud ShotFloor sort, 1.5 DPT, 4.5 EPT, 1.0 CD
  • Poison StingPoison sort, 1.5 DPT, 4.5 EPT, 1.0 CD

Alright, right here's our first “what might have been?” dialogue level. For a lot the previous couple of months, Clodsire had Poison Jab (3.5 DPT, 3.5 EPT) assigned within the gamemaster. Now, per week earlier than launch, that has been dropped and changed by Poison Sting. Now in equity, Sting just isn't a nasty transfer. The issue is that Clod's different quick transfer is an actual clone for Floor: Mud Shot. This removes loads of flexibility from Clodsire, leaving it with none quick transfer stress choice and as an alternative with two quick strikes that deal hardly any injury (particularly with its very low Assault stat) and put all of the onus on the cost strikes to beat. In different phrases, Clodsire has now primarily turn out to be a Floor/Poison Regi. Is {that a} dangerous factor, essentially? Nicely, first let's take a look at what cost strikes it has after which we'll put all of it collectively… after which see what else it misplaced alongside the way in which.

– Unique (Neighborhood Day) Transfer


  • Acid SprayPoison sort, 20 injury, 45 vitality, Reduces Opponent Protection -2 Phases
  • Sludge BombPoison sort, 80 injury, 50 vitality
  • Stone EdgeRock sort, 100 injury, 55 vitality
  • Megahorn – Bug sort, 110 injury, 55 vitality
  • Water PulseWater sort, 70 injury, 60 vitality
  • EarthquakeFloor sort, 110 injury, 65 vitality

So in the long run… that is no Regi. Whereas Clodsire does include three cost strikes that deal triple digit injury (together with the Neighborhood Day transfer Megahorn), none of them come near the 130-150 injury closers the OG Regi trio have like Focus Blast and Zap Cannon. Regisire maxes out at 110 injury (plus STAB, at the very least) with Earthquake. Then the brand new Megahorn additionally offers 110 (although with out STAB) and Stone Edge will get a flat 100.

However paradoxically, about the most effective it might probably do by placing collectively a mix of these closing strikes is the outdated, pre-Mud Bomb Quagsire moveset: Stone Edge/Earthquake. Total, Clod does it higher than Edge/Quake Quag ever might due to that superior bulk and Preventing-resistant typing netting wins that old-school Quagsire couldn't like Medicham (with out Psychic… we'll revisit this later), Vigoroth, Scrafty, Umbreon, Sableye, DDeoxys, Mantine, and Shadow Victreebel, although the superior Assault (and typically that Water subtyping) of Quag allowed it to beat issues like G-Fisk, Froslass, Dewgong, Water Gun Lanturn, and Mandibuzz that similar-moved Clodsire stuggles with.

That each one mentioned, I believe a greater (and definitely extra distinctive, as in comparison with Quagsire) moveset for Clod to think about facilities round Sludge Bomb, which offers notably much less injury than any of the true “closing” strikes, but in addition comes a bit quicker and clearly with Poison injury that operates fairly otherwise from Quagsire. Mockingly, this works much less effectively with Earthquake than it does with Stone Edge. Whereas Quake is essential to beating Alolan Sandslash and knocking out Medicham (once more, assuming it lacks or simply by no means lands Psychic {the transfer}), solely with Stone Edge does Clod take down Charizard, Mantine, and Noctowl, solely with Sludge Bomb does Clodsire uniquely take down Lickitung and even Trevenant, and solely with the mixture of the 2 can Clodsire outrace Mandibuzz and Cresselia.

Edge/Bomb can be arguably the higher moveset in 2v2 shielding as effectively, in a position to beat Azumarill, Scrafty, Vigoroth, Shadow Victreebel, Cofagrigus, and Cresselia, whereas Edge/Quake beats G-Fisk and Alolan Sandslash however trails badly in any other case. I will give a shoutout to Quake/Mud Bomb right here, which retains the flexibility to beat Azumarill, G-Fisk, Scrafty, Vigoroth, Shadow Vic, and A-Slash, and whereas it does drop Mantine, Noctowl, and Cresselia with out Stone Edge, the Quake/Bomb combo can beat Water Gun Lanturn and Medicham… now even with Psychic (the transfer)!

And at last, with shields down, there's once more a debate available. Stone Edge is once more essential for Charizard, Dewgong, and Mantine. Sludge Bomb is required if you wish to beat Serperior, Trevenant, and (particularly in combination with Earthquake) Water Gun Lanturn once more, and Clod can not fell Jellicent, A-Slash, Steelix, Umbreon, or Medicham with no massive Earthquake. What mixture of these suits YOUR wants greatest? It's an actual pickle.

The disgrace of it's… we virtually had FAR much less debate on what to run. Not solely was Clodsire nerfed within the quick transfer division previous to launch… it was gutted in its cost transfer bundle too. At present it has the so-awful-I-haven't-bothered-mentioning-it-yet Water Pulse, dealing solely 70 injury for 60 vitality. That's much less injury than each different transfer Clod has besides bait-and-switch transfer Acid Spray, whereas additionally costing extra vitality than each transfer besides Earthquake (and that one offers an extra 40 injury plus STAB for less than 5 extra vitality!). So as to add insult to damage, the Water transfer that Clodsire initially had assigned that was changed with the horrible Pulse? Surf, which offers solely 5 injury lower than Pulse and prices 20 much less vitality (40 vitality, 65 injury).

Clodsire with Surf would have been in a position to beat Medicham, the scourge of Play! Pokémon tournaments that constantly seems on 75% (or typically extra) of groups, in all even shield situations. [Clodsire with Poison Jab]() would have been in a position to beat Medi in shieldless and 2v2 shield situations and an IV-dependant win or, at worst, a near-tie in 1shield too. The what-could-have-beens versus Medicham alone are a bitter capsule to swallow. However think about how way more distinctive, constant, and versatile Clodsire would have been had it retained Poison Jab or Surf or, whereas we're dreaming, both of those moves. Now you'd be capable to beat issues like Azumarill, Gligar, Cresselia, Lickitung, Mandibuzz, Alolan Ninetales, Trevenant, Serperior, Venusaur, and Lanturn… without having to choose. Or what would extra possible find yourself being featured in main tournaments can be the Poison-heavy Jab/Surf/Sludge Bomb variant that had so many excited for its skill to constantly beat Medicham in all even defend situations whereas retaining all different notable Jab/Surf wins listed above besides A-Slash, Toxicroak, and WG Lanturn (which principally require Earthquake).

(Heck, there would have even been a legit shot for Clodsire to point out up as a spicy option in Ultra League! However alas.)

I do know I'm throwing a LOT of simulations at you, and I do apologize. To sum up, what we're left with for Clodsire is certainly passable (particularly with high rank IVs to higher assure issues like Mandibuzz, Cresselia, and Steelix), and with multiple viable variants, however actually, simply not really meta-shaking. And that's what many have been hoping for with it, with either one (or both!) of its now-lost strikes. We've actually had different last-minute transfer shakeups that dashed the hopes of PvPers… keep in mind Araquanid losing Lunge and Crunch simply earlier than launch, changed by Bug Buzz and freaking Mirror Coat? (My lips STILL curl after I keep in mind the evaluation (and pleasure) dashed to items over that one.) Or Hawlucha dropping Wing Assault and Sky Assault (on the time nonetheless a terrific PvP transfer) simply earlier than it arrived? Or extra just lately, Gogoat dropping the Rock Slide that made it particular simply earlier than launch? One might say that, in a manner, we're our personal worst enemies by poring over unreleased movesets discovered by good of us just like the PokeMiners, setting ourselves up for disappointment when Niantic modifications their minds.

And within the case of Clodsire, one might say that extra instantly, with some of us (who will stay unnamed, as a result of I think about a number of of them buddies that I simply occur to strongly disagree with on this case) posting precise infographics advocating for the elimination of Poison Jab and Surf earlier than Clod's launch. They obtained what they requested for… and I believe the sport is far worse off now for it. As a substitute of a Pokémon that might have really shaken up the meta — I imagine in much more optimistic methods than not, equivalent to bringing some bona fide (and badly wanted) Medicham management — with out being out of stability, we now as an alternative get one thing that does… what? Positive, it would make many appearances in GBL and Restricted metas transferring ahead, nevertheless it's now simply one other bit participant that shifts nothing. It's only one extra of a myriad of choices that may possible not seem on the aggressive circuit the place it had SO a lot badly wanted potential, and as an alternative fade away as one other “what if?” misplaced trigger.

Niantic, for those who're studying this, I encourage of you to rethink. There's nonetheless time earlier than launch. Megahorn does nothing for this thing. I ask you to think about additionally giving it Poison Jab as at the very least a Neighborhood Day unique transfer. (It could be distinctive and attention-grabbing then without being broken.) Or give it Surf again. Or heck, even each. Gamers WANT some precise, bona fide shakeup. Individuals have been wanting ahead to it with this Pokémon particularly. Please don't hearken to the request of some, however the many. The majority of top players (manymany such players) are upset, to say the least, to incorporate final season's World Champion. So once more, as even Mr. PvPoke and others have requested, I'm requesting Niantic please rethink. It's not too late. The meta feels stale, as others have mentioned, and this may be a welcome breath of contemporary air to check out and (as famous by PvPoke) a missed likelihood to place “extra belief within the gamers to adapt than dialing again new Pokémon.”

Once more.

Nicely, for now, it's what it's. Not a nasty total addition to the meta, however I concern it would get misplaced in a sea of choices relatively than standing out because it might have. Perhaps that's for the most effective, however I'm having hassle seeing it from the place I sit.

What do YOU suppose, Pokéfriends? Sound in with your individual feedback!

Within the meantime, there's one other all-new addition coming with this Neighborhood Day….


Wooper (Paldean)


So OG Wooper has been a staple in Little League formats, together with its Shadow form, and likewise together with some secret strats (with Purified Wooper) and likewise some new and improved tech with the large buff to Dig this season.

But it surely's nothing in comparison with Paldean Wooper. Whereas Wooper's typing offers it some benefits and wins that go together with them (to incorporate Onix, Barboach, Ice Shard Seel, Alolan Sandshrew, and occational Little League gamers like Swampert and Walrein, Paldean Wooper will get many extra distinctive wins that embody (so as) Altaria, Bulbasaur, Cottonee, Golbat, Igglybuff. Mandibuzz (and Vullaby), Obstagoon, Scrafty, Shelmet and extra. A few of it's the typing, however a big a part of it's retaining the Poison Jab that was teased after which dropped from Clodsire's movepool. Take into account Paldean Wooper's success a dichotomy of a few of Clodsire's missed potential. And it is going to be even higher if it ever will get a Shadow version down the street.

Alright, I believe I've harped sufficient on the Paldean facet. Let's return to good outdated Quagsire and see the way it fares with its new transfer.

QUAGSIRE Stats and Strikes



Nice League Stats

Assault Protection HP
(112 Excessive Stat Product)
(114 Excessive Stat Product)
(165 Excessive Stat Product)

(Highest Stat Product IVs: 0-15-14, 1499 CP, Stage 29)

Extremely League Stats

Assault Protection HP
140 133 194

(Assuming 15-15-15 IVs; CP 2252 at Stage 50)

So clearly not almost the identical bulk as Clodsire, however nonetheless fairly good (a lot nearer to Whiscash than Swampert by way of bulk), and arguably a greater defensive typing mixture than Clod. Mud Boys famously have only one weak spot: Grass (albeit a double weak spot). Nothing else offers higher than impartial injury, and a few issues that decide on Clod's Floor typing (Ice and Water) deal solely impartial injury to Quag due to Water neutralizing them. Ultimately, Quagsire finally ends up resisting Electrical, Poison, and Rock due to its Floor typing, and Metal and Fireplace due to its Water typing.

However you're right here for the strikes, so let's get to these!


  • Mud ShotFloor sort, 1.5 DPT, 4.5 EPT, 1.0 CD
  • Water GunWater sort, 3.0 DPT, 3.0 EPT, 0.5 CD

There have been Restricted metas (principally these stuffed with Flyers) the place I've really helpful Water Gun as a legit different, however let's be trustworthy… as with the opposite OG Mud Boys, normally it's trip or die with Mud Shot. I don't suppose you really want additional evaluation right here, apart from to say that each one the stress is then placed on the cost strikes. So let's examine these out!

– Unique (Neighborhood Day) Transfer

– Purified-only Transfer


  • Aqua Tail – Water sort, 50 injury, 35 vitality
  • Mud BombFloor sort, 55 injury, 40 vitality
  • Acid SprayPoison sort, 20 injury, 45 vitality, Reduces Opponent Protection -2 Phases
  • Sludge BombPoison sort, 80 injury, 50 vitality
  • Stone EdgeRock sort, 100 injury, 55 vitality
  • EarthquakeFloor sort, 110 injury, 65 vitality
  • ReturnRegular sort, 130 injury, 70 vitality

Elevate your hand for those who didn't even KNOW that Quagsire comes with the identical Poison cost strikes that Clodsire is getting. You'd be forgiven for having no thought, because you'll principally by no means see them regardless of their apparent direct-answer-to-Grasses utility. I'll confess I personally obtained overwhelmed by a Sludge Bomb Quagsire in a Silph Enviornment battle as soon as upon a time as a result of despite the fact that I DID realize it was a part of its movepool (as that's sort of my “job” 😉), I figured, who the heck would really DO that? Whoops!

Anyway, strikes that HAVE seen all of the utilization so far are the Floor strikes and Stone Edge. It was once Earthquake/Edge, however that was within the days earlier than Mud Bomb, which has significantly turn out to be the favourite of the now-popular Shadow Quag. The principle situation Quagsire had for a very long time was having no bait/pace potential like Swampert (Hydro Cannon) or Whiscash (Mud Bomb). Getting Bomb lastly fastened that and has allowed it to take off finally in PvP.

And now comes a transfer that's quicker than any of these: Aqua Tail, the unique transfer Quag is getting this month. It scales properly with Mud Bomb, dealing 5 much less injury for five much less vitality. However maybe much more vital than the decrease value is the typing, as Tail is a Water transfer. So far, the one Water injury Quag has needed to work with was quick transfer Water Gun. And lots of the new wins you get with Aqua Tail come attributable to that sort of injury, with Gligar (common and Shadow), Steelix, and Diggersby all transferring into the win column… together with Vigoroth simply because of the sheer pace of Tail. There's one loss, although: Water Gun Lanturn, which takes tremendous efficient injury from Mud Bomb however, after all, resists Aqua Tail. If that's a significant concern, you may mitigate it by operating Tail/Quake as an alternative of Stone Edge, which good points Lanturn again in addition to DDeoxys, Scrafty, and the mirror, however then you might have the issue of how you can overcome Flyers like Mandibuzz and Noctowl and Shadow Gligar, and Ices like Froslass and Dewgong, or how you can outrace Vigoroth and such (all of which require Stone Edge as THE key piece).

Nonetheless you slice it, although, Aqua Tail would appear to be a really strong sidegrade, at worst, and it's in all probability extra honest to name it an improve. That is additionally the case in different shielding situations, equivalent to 0shield (the place Aqua Tail beats Gligar, Diggersby, and the mirror, whereas Mud Bomb as an alternative buries Registeel, Medicham, and Water Gun Lanturn), and 2v2 shielding (Aqua Tail washes away Steelix, Charizard, Cofagrigus, and Shadow Gligar, Mud Bomb as an alternative beats Azumarill, Lanturn, and Jellicent). Extra of a sidegrade there than improve, however nonetheless an excellent one.

And whereas I don't know that I'd advocate it, you may even run with Aqua Tail and Mud Bomb, forgoing the knockout energy essential to beat Dewgong, Shadow Gligar, Mandibuzz, Noctowl, or Vigoroth to as an alternative get the Diggersby, Steelix, and Gligar wins, and pickup new wins like Sableye, DDeoxys, and even Mud Boy King Swampert!

You may count on Shadow Quagsire to maybe choose the spam of Aqua Tail/Mud Bomb, nevertheless it really isn't at its best in that configuration, I don't suppose. Whereas Aqua Tail is ready to take down Charizard, Shadow Gligar, and the mirror, and Mud Bomb defeats WG Lanturn and Toxicroak, you require Stone Edge to beat Pelipper, Noctowl, Alolan Ninetales, Gligar (alongside Aqua Tail), and/or DDeoxys and Jellicent (alongside Mud Bomb). I DO suppose that if ShadowQuag needs Floor injury, it needs Mud Bomb and not Earthquake, so as soon as once more I believe the most effective choices are Edge/Tail or Edge/Mud Bomb for Shadow.

Your selection between Aqua Tail or Mud Bomb on ShadowQuag is about extra than simply their effectiveness, although. It's additionally considerably about your playstyle and the place Quag would seem in your line of three. Mud Bomb is best than Aqua Tail total with shields down, beating Registeel, Steelix, Cofagrigus, and Spark Lanturn, whereas Tail solely uniquely beats Shadow (not even regular!) Gligar. However in 2v2 shielding, it's in all probability not a shock that Aqua Tail and its superior pace pulls a bit forward of Mud Bomb with particular wins versus some acquainted names like Charizard, Diggersby, enemy Quagsires, and Gligar (Shadow or regular now), whereas Mud solely nabs Azumarill and Water Gun Lanturn as its distinctive wins.

Finish of the day, there stays room for a number of totally different transfer configurations on Quagsire, each new and old-school. Which strikes you utilize rely in your crew, playstyle, and heck, even simply private preferences. For my cash although, I believe Aqua Tail/Stone Edge is more likely to emerge as my new private favourite for normal use… however I'll completely be holding on to my current Mud Bo,b and even Earthquake variants too. They ALL have use and the Floor strikes will certainly be higher choices in sure metas. Don't toss them out… simply seize new Aqua Tail Quagsires to your assortment as effectively whereas you are able to do so while not having any Elite TMs.

Quagsire vs Clodsire | Pokemon Scarlet & Violet Form Fight - YouTube


As I simply talked about, QUAGSIRE is a winner with new transfer Aqua Tail. It doesn't outright change current Quags, nevertheless it IS extremely aggressive and will turn out to be your go-to for Open play, or on the very least in the best Restricted metas!

As for CLODSIRE… I do know I spent a pair paragraphs asking for Niantic to rethink their massive pre-release nerf of its greatest quick transfer AND good bait/protection cost transfer, however I don't wish to give the improper thought to you, pricey reader: that is nonetheless an excellent Pokémon that WILL absolutely make some waves in Nice League play. It could be exhausting for it NOT to with that typing and wonderful bulk and still-decent array of cost strikes. It simply might have been so much more.

Alright, that's all we obtained for immediately. I do know that is fairly early (Neighborhood Day doesn't happen till Sunday at 2:00pm native time), however I needed to get this out in time so that you can nonetheless grind for Shadow Woopers (or at the very least take away Frustration from some), and for Niantic to learn this and maybe nonetheless change their minds about Clodsire. Critically of us, I do know you learn these, so one final time: giving it at the very least Poison Jab OR Surf again ain't gonna break something, besides maybe your loved one Medicham. Allow us to gamers dwell a bit of, eh?

Thus endeth evaluation article #497, and I'm beginning to put collectively the body of #500. However for now, till subsequent time, you may all the time discover me discover me on Twitter with common GO evaluation nuggets or Patreon, for those who're feeling further beneficiant.

Good searching, of us! Do keep secure on the market, and catch you subsequent time, Pokéfriends!

(Header artwork by Brian Danger Art (modified by JRE), used with permission. Thanks, Brian!)

The publish A PvP Evaluation on Neighborhood Day Quagsire and new Clodsire! appeared first on Pokémon GO Hub.

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