[Analysis] Poison-type attackers in raids (in case we get the opposite Tapus later this season)

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Why are you even penning this?

(Article TL;DR beneath this part.)

To be clear: There aren’t any formally introduced occasions or raid bosses that contain any Poison-type raid attackers, nor any state of affairs to make use of them towards.

This text was ready primarily based on the idea that Tapu Bulu WOULD be a raid boss in March. Since Tapu Bulu is the one boss that Poison attackers actually shine towards, if there’s a time to cowl them, that will be it.

… After which it aged like milk.

As a substitute of letting this sit in my laptop for who-knows-how-long, I figured I might somewhat put collectively this text shortly, in order that the 5 individuals who care can profit from it.

Plus, Poison is the one kind I haven’t talked about in any respect in my previous articles, so after this, I can lastly say I’ve coated all 17 non-normal sorts. It’s the low-hanging fruit on the market.


Nihilego >> Roserade > Overqwil > Gengar > every little thing else.

On account of low utility – not sufficient bosses to make use of them towards – Poison has one of many lowest priorities for constructing raid groups, except you lack sufficient Metagross.

They’re by far the very best towards Tapu Bulu and permit a straightforward duo, however you’ll be able to nonetheless trio Tapu Bulu with Hearth and Metal counters.

Within the few non-Bulu circumstances once they can be utilized, each Nihilego and Roserade are worse than Metagross. Nihilego can also be sometimes weaker than different prime legendaries you should utilize, however above non-legendaries. Roserade is worse than most different non-legendaries, however is usually a good filler in your Metal (anti-Fairy) staff.

Hold studying for:

  • Detailed breakdown of cross-type comparisons
  • Future and speculative Poison attackers

(This text is sort of quick by my requirements.)

Now you can comply with me (@teban54) onTwitter!

Present Poison attackers

Poison attackers ranked by their common in-raid efficiency, utilizing ASE, ASE with dodging, and ASTTW.

  • Nihilego


  • Roserade


  • Overqwil


  • Gengar


I guess this tier checklist is much less acquainted to most individuals than some other kind, however it’s fairly easy:

Nihilego >> Roserade > Overqwil > Gengar > every little thing else.

  • Nihilego‘s enchancment over Roserade is definitely fairly large: 13.5%. For context, that is better than Origin Pulse Kyogre over Swampert and Precipice Blades Groudon over Garchomp.
  • If you happen to’re shocked that Overqwil is the third finest non-mega non-shadow Poison… So was I. Regardless of its lackluster 222 base assault, it advantages from the very best Poison moveset (Poison Jab/Sludge Bomb), and different Poison sorts simply being weak usually.
  • Realistically, although, Roserade and Gengar will probably be what most individuals are utilizing (plus Mega Gengar & Mega Beedrill), since they’re additionally wonderful at being attackers of different sorts.
  • For Gengar, the legacy transfer Lick (from its two raid days in 2018 & 2020) is technically the very best in single tremendous Efficient conditions, corresponding to towards Tapu Funi and Zacian. Nevertheless, non-legacy Hex will not be far behind, and truly turns into higher towards Tapu Bulu who’s double weak to Poison. Shadow Claw is inferior except the boss can also be weak to Ghost (Tapu Lele).

Additionally, LOL @ Sludge Bomb Darkrai.

Low utility for Poison attackers

That is the principle cause why folks nearly by no means talk about Poison sorts in raids.

Poison is barely Tremendous Efficient towards Grass and Fairy sorts. However:

  • Grass is uncommon amongst legendaries and megas, and once they do seem, they’re sometimes double weak to one thing else or take impartial harm from poison.
    • Enjoyable truth: Out of the 17 double typings that embrace Grass, solely 4 wouldn’t have a double weak spot and is weak to Poison (Electrical, Hearth, Regular, Water). Ludicolo raids FTW?
  • So countering Fairy is the principle cause to carry Poison sorts out, particularly as a result of Fairy is a really sturdy defensive typing – solely weak to Metal and Poison.
  • However since Fairy-type legendaries solely began showing in Gen 6, there are merely not lots of them. Plus, attackers of different sorts are sometimes higher.

The truth is, in my Sort Utility metric, Poison is near the bottom:

Utility of all sorts in T5 and mega raids. Numbers are the (tough) % of raid bosses every kind can be utilized towards. Excludes launched megas and analysis mythicals (except they might come to Elite Raids).

I’ve talked about in latest articles that Psychic sorts (Mewtwo) and Water sorts (Kyogre) have low utility in T5 and mega raids. Poison is in the identical tier, and stays right here no matter boss choice.

Bosses that you should utilize Poison towards:

  • T5s: Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Fini, Xerneas, Zacian (Hero)
  • Megas: Altaria, Audino, Gardevoir
  • Potential T5/Elites: Shaymin (Land), Iron Valiant

That’s not nothing, because of the Gen 6/7/8 Fairy legendaries. However most sorts have a for much longer checklist.

To make issues worse, Nihilego isn’t any Mewtwo nor Kyogre…

Poison attackers in comparison with different sorts

[Section TL;DR] Each Nihilego and Roserade are worse than Metagross. Nihilego can also be sometimes weaker than different prime legendaries you should utilize, however above non-legendaries. Roserade is worse than most different non-legendaries, however is usually a good filler in your Metal (anti-Fairy) staff.

Are Poison sorts weak? Not likely. Nihilego has 40.96 ER, which is akin to Hydreigon (41.64), and better than Rampardos (39), Earth Energy Garchomp (38.78) and Mamoswine (37.07).

The issue is, Metal attackers can usually be used along with poison. That principally means Metagross, which neither Nihilego nor Roserade have any probability of touching (even the non-shadow).

It’s unfair to solely evaluate Poison to Metal, since Poison is sweet towards all 4 Tapus whereas Metal is barely good for 1. Sadly, towards the opposite 2 Tapus with competitors (Koko and Fini), Poison attackers nonetheless disappoint.

Utilizing ER comparisons and Pokebattler rankings to calibrate, right here’s roughly how Nihilego (40.96 ER) compares to different sorts: (there’s a Roserade desk later)

Different attacking kind Just like Worse than Higher than
Metal (anti-fairy)   S-Metagross, Metagross Diagla, Excadrill, Genesect, Jirachi
Floor (anti-Koko)   S-Mamoswine, Groudon Garchomp, Excadrill, Mamoswine, Rhyperior
Ghost (anti-Lele) Giratina-O, Gholdengo   Chandelure, Gengar
Electrical (anti-Fini) Thundurus-T S-Raikou, Xurkitree, Zekrom, S-Elecitivire, S-Magnezone Raikou, Electivire, Magnezone
Grass (anti-Fini) Zarude, S-Tangrowth Kartana Tapu Bulu, Roserade
Hearth (anti-Shaymin) * Darmanitan, Chandelure Reshiram, S-Moltres, S-Entei, S-Charizard, S-Typhlosion Moltres (Overheat), Blaziken

“S-” stands for shadows.

* Nihilego has a scientific typing drawback towards Shaymin, because it solely has grass-type charged strikes, which deal impartial harm to Nihilego however resisted harm to fireplace attackers. Its ER is extra consistent with Shadow Typhlosion.

And beneath is identical comparability for Roserade (34.93 ER):

Different attacking kind Just like Worse than Higher than
Metal (anti-fairy) Excadrill, Genesect, Jirachi Dialga, Metagross and above  
Floor (anti-Koko)   Excadrill, Mamoswine and above  
Ghost (anti-Lele)   Gengar and above  
Electrical (anti-Fini) * Luxray Electivire, Magnezone and above Jolteon
Grass (anti-Fini) * Roserade (grass), Chesnaught, Tangrowth Tapu Bulu and above Sceptile, Venusaur
Hearth (anti-Shaymin) Typhlosion, Flareon Blaziken and above  

* In opposition to Tapu Fini, Roserade prefers Poison Jab/Grass Knot in impartial climate. This raises its efficiency to Electivire degree.

General image:

  • Nihilego does put up legendary efficiency, being above most non-shadow non-mega non-legendaries, and much like barely outclassed legendaries like Thundurus-T and Zarude. Nevertheless, it’s constantly worse than Metagross and prime legendaries of different sorts (Groudon, Zekrom, Kartana, Reshiram).
  • Roserade is normally worse than most non-legendaries (Floor Mamoswine, Magnezone, Blaziken). The exceptions are when in comparison with Metal, the place it’s akin to non-Metagross non-Dialga choices; and towards Tapu Fini, the place its blended moveset makes it the best non-legendary counter.

Notable particular circumstances:

  • If you happen to don’t have sufficient Metagross, then Nihilego is your subsequent finest anti-Fairy counter. If you happen to additionally don’t have Dialga, then Roserade will come in useful too.
  • Against Tapu Koko, Nihilego is usually higher than any non-mega that’s not named Shadow Mamoswine or Precipice Blades Groudon.
    • Sure, it’s higher than Earth Energy Garchomp, even when Tapu Koko has an Electrical charged transfer.
    • In opposition to some movesets when Nihilego has a typing benefit, it will probably even outperform PB Groudon!
  • Against Tapu Lele, Nihilego is on par with Shadow Power Giratina-O. This makes it the following finest non-mega counter after Shadow and common Metagross.

Whereas investing in a Nihilego is an efficient solution to range your staff towards fairies, I wouldn’t go heavy on it. The uncommon candies will be as an alternative spent on one of many different legendaries listed above, which all have better utility. It’s good to have, however even one copy is much from a should.

A poison-only Roserade is finest seen as a fill-in anti-Fairy counter, if you happen to lack a full Metal staff. If you have already got grass Roserade constructed, double shifting or TMing are good choices.

Be mindful the principle concern with Poison sorts will not be their energy, however lack of utility.

Future and speculative attackers

Future and speculative Poison attackers ranked by ASE, ASE with dodging, and ASTTW.

[Section TL;DR] Nihilego will ultimately get outclassed by Shadow Roserade, however except Eternatus get strikes not at present within the Recreation Grasp, Nihilego is sort of future-proof amongst non-shadows, although simply barely.



First, word that whereas Gengar lacks a Poison quick transfer at this time, it will probably lean Poison Jab within the MSG because the starting of PoGo. Ought to it obtain one, both through a GBL replace, a second Neighborhood Day or a third raid day:

  • Common Poison Jab Gengar instantly overtakes Roserade, however can’t attain Nihilego degree as a result of lack of bulk.
  • Shadow Poison Jab Gengar turns into the very best non-mega except Eternatus will get higher strikes.
  • Mega Poison Jab Gengar turns into much more OP.

Roserade (Shadow)


As talked about within the TL;DR, Shadow Roserade will surpass Nihilego, though simply barely.

  • Naganadel


  • Gengar (Shadow)


  • Eternatus


  • Arceus (Poison)


  • Sneasler


An entire bunch of stuff have potential to take a seat throughout the large hole between Nihilego and Roserade in ASE, with some tying Nihilego in ASTTW:

  • Naganadel (Gen 7 Extremely Beast), probably the primary we’ll see. With the best-case moveset Poison Jab/Sludge Bomb, it has larger DPS than Nihilego, however too frail to realize constantly good efficiency. PJ/SB Naganadel has primarily the identical TTW as Nihilego, however falls behind in estimator.
  • Shadow Gengar with no Poison quick transfer. Related scenario as Naganadel, however a lot glassier.
  • Eternatus (Gen 8 legendary), with its present Recreation Grasp moveset. Despite the fact that its base stats are probably the most promising by far (278 base assault and one of many highest stats merchandise), proper now it’s caught with Cross Poison, making it a slower, bulkier Nihilego/Naganadel.
    • Mockingly, Cross Poison limits Eternatus’s potential in raids however makes it OP in Master League with bait potential – the other of what you’d anticipate. Changing Cross Poison with Sludge Bomb or Gunk Shot really is smart, or a minimum of makes it much less OP.
  • Arceus Poison, if every Arceus will get totally different strikes (proper now in GM they share the identical strikes). Arceus’s middling 238 assault makes it unable to compete with legendaries of different sorts as raid attackers, however Poison is the one and solely time it will probably shine. Too dangerous, it obtained right here too late and Nihilego took the highlight.
  • Sneasler, if given Sludge Bomb. Sneasler entered PoGo final summer season when it had no authorized Poison charged strikes to study from Legends Arceus, however now in S/V it will probably doubtlessly study Sludge Bomb or Gunk Shot. SB could make it the very best non-legendary Poison kind, much like…
  • Poison Jab Gengar, as famous above.

Be aware that if Eternatus does obtain both Sludge Bomb or Gunk Shot, it instantly turns into the very best Poison attacker, outclassing even shadows. Sludge Bomb Eternatus is even higher than common Metagross, although not Shadow Metagross.

If Naganadel and Sneasler are caught with Gunk Shot or worse strikes, they’ll find yourself beneath Roserade. Salazzle’s and Toxtricity’s ceilings are even decrease than that, even when they get Sludge Bomb someday (neither do in the mean time). Technically talking, they do have the potential to affix the chart, however not of any consequence.

What’s subsequent?

As soon as Pokebattler provides Gholdengo to the location, I’ll write a considerably fast evaluation on Gholdengo and Double Iron Bash Melmetal as ghost and metal attackers.

  • If anybody desires some fast phrases: Gholdengo is sweet ghost, however Hydreigon is best and means cheaper. DIB Melmetal is as helpful as poison Roserade described above, lol.

Moreover that, March looks like a reasonably chill month for many actions within the recreation, apart from rockets. And the author me is okay with that – I can take a while to concentrate on work and different issues, which I haven’t actually been capable of within the final 3 months because of the consistently bombarding PvE “content material” and consequent articles (each in amount and high quality).

  • Some fast phrases on Tornadus Incarnate: Worse than CD Staraptor and Honchkrow, lol. Its future signature transfer might change issues, however in all probability not more than Dragon Ascent Rayquaza.

After I do have time devoted to analyses, listed below are some issues I may go on. Can’t give any ensures in the mean time, so these are simply concepts. Be at liberty to vote in your favourite ones, or counsel any articles you need to see!

  • There’s an opinion piece arising within the close to future. Nothing analytical and unrelated to my previous analyses, however it’s a really private one and I simply need to share my experiences.
  • Additionally, possibly a submit with plots for all 17 non-normal sorts as a photograph gallery. They’re scattered throughout varied articles, however good to have them multi functional place. (Will in all probability do Estimator solely although, since some earlier articles don’t have ASTTW.)
  • Which shadows are helpful in raids? This will probably be extra of a tier checklist with no plots concerned. Hopefully earlier than the Rocket takeover on Mar 21.
  • I’ll create a “touchdown web page” in my profile to interchange the appendices. It’ll embrace all my previous analyses, technical explanations of the metrics, and (higher written) guides on studying the charts.
  • Code infrastructure updates. Moreover making my life simpler and fewer tedious, this could theoretically permit me to simulate a full foyer of 6, as an alternative of only a single attacker. This opens up some prospects sooner or later:
    • Combined lobbies of glass cannons and tanks: 3 Rampardos + 3 Rhyperior?
    • Calibration of ASE vs ASTTW, particularly for distant raids. How usually do relobbies happen? Is Estimator too prudent and overvaluing tanks?
    • Verification of mega comparisons I’ve made prior to now. These are solely theoretical numbers, so let’s see what occurs if you do have a Mega Aggron boosting 5 Metagross.
  • Having a look at future and speculative raid attackers extra systematically. I’ve completed this for a number of sorts prior to now, and there are extra sorts for which I’ve the info, however merely ran out of time to incorporate them within the plots. I’ll hopefully full it for every kind, and with a number of extra steps, this may culminate in a single query: Does “PvE as we all know it” have a future? My reply isn’t any, and hopefully, you’ll ultimately see why.
  • A brand new kind of posts which might be completely unrelated to raid analyses, however I discover fascinating: Visualizing availability of various Pokémon, corresponding to legendaries, shadows, and CD strikes. For instance, how usually does every legendary and every CD transfer return?
  • My very own model of “High PvE Pokémon” checklist. There’s one on TSR every so often, and so they sometimes get 3x as many upvotes as I do, however most solely use theoretical metrics like ER, or worse, DPS. I’m enthusiastic about creating one which hopefully entails my experimental metrics (should find yourself primarily basing it on ER, however use ASE/ASTTW to calibrate in edge circumstances, corresponding to Kyogre vs Groudon or Rampardos vs Rhyperior).
    • One other facet I’m making an attempt to seize: How a lot hole is there between attackers. Kartana and Rayquaza have very totally different ranges of dominance amongst their respective sorts.

Thanks for attending to the tip of this boring article, and hopefully you loved my reward to you – an entire bunch of concepts that will or might not even see the sunshine of day, haha.

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