Mamoswine as an Ice and Floor-type raid attacker: Is 6*L50 Shadow Mamoswine price it?

42 Min Read
Edit: I forgot to contemplate Zygarde raids, that are additionally finest countered by Mamoswine. It ought to nonetheless be duoable by L30 common Mamoswines with finest buddies, however more durable than Rayquaza and Landorus. Extra discussions here.

TL;DR – If you wish to DUO Mega Rayquaza, sure!

(Abstract “infographic” beneath)

  • Shadow Mamoswine dominates Ice sorts, and is a top-tier counter towards Dragon and Flying bosses, although it’s typically not the most effective (different sorts have higher shadows and Xurkitree).
  • Whereas most makes use of for Ice sorts (Rayquaza and Landorus raids) are straightforward duos and solely NEED L30 common Mamoswines, having 6*L50 Shadow Mamoswines permits you to DUO MEGA Rayquaza!
  • Shadow Mamoswine can also be usually the finest non-mega Floor sort, edging out PB Groudon in sensible use. Nevertheless, it fares rather a lot worse when in comparison with competitor sorts, being worse than their shadows and legendaries. Fortunately, there are a number of bosses the place Floor is the one possibility.
  • Whereas common Mamoswine remains to be a top-tier non-shadow Ice and one of many many nice Floor sorts, it’s now not aggressive when in comparison with different sorts, even different non-legendaries. Evolve an inexpensive high-level non-shadow workforce if you happen to don’t have one, however all sources ought to go into shadows.
  • Even Ice-type Shadow Mamoswine can theoretically be outclassed by Galarian Zen Darmanitan, however its implementation is unsure.

Preserve studying for:

  • Ice-type and Floor-type charts
  • Pairwise comparisons contain Shadow and Common Mamoswine
  • Particulars on Mega Rayquaza duo and Mega Garchomp solo with Shadow Mamoswine groups
  • Plots of Ice vs Dragon, and Ice vs Electrical vs Rock
  • Chosen future Ice and Floor attackers
  • Listing of my earlier analyses, in Appendix


Swinub Neighborhood Day Basic takes place on Saturday, April 29, from 2pm to 5pm.

Whereas the CD transfer Historic Energy has no use in raids, Mamoswine itself has been a staple as a raid attacker ever because it was launched. Common (non-shadow) Mamoswine had been the most effective Ice sort for years, then Shadow Mamoswine took over for one more few years, and since Mamoswine obtained Excessive Horsepower in December 2022 (obtainable with common Charged TMs), it might even perform as an excellent Floor sort! Immediately, Shadow Mamoswine stays the #1 Ice AND Floor attacker (usually).

What are you ready for with a prime of its sort? Go grind as exhausting as you’ll be able to! Get these 2160 XLs to construct 6 Degree 50 Shadow Mamoswine! See ya!

You’re nonetheless studying? After all, you understand I by no means cease there.

Not each “#1 of its sort” can win – Bug and Fairy (hyperlink) are some notoriously unhealthy examples. On the finish of the day, what you utilize in raids are usually not all the time 6 of a single sort, however slightly, 6 finest counters towards a single boss.

Each Ice and Floor occur to have weaker energy than different attacking sorts that you need to use… Though there are conditions the place you have to make use of them, most notably towards Rayquaza.

This offers rise to the principle questions that I wish to tackle as we speak:

  • When Ice or Floor is the one possibility, is a 6*L50 shadow workforce actually mandatory? Or are you able to make do with cheaper groups, even wild-caught Degree 30s?
  • When Ice or Floor is not the one possibility, how does (common/shadow) Mamoswine evaluate to attackers of different sorts? How typically will you really be utilizing it on the sector?

I’ll reply these questions with the next components:

  • Half 1: Shadow and common Mamoswine as Ice attackers
    • 1a: Ice-type charts
    • 1b: When is Ice required, and when is Ice usable however not the most effective?
    • 1c: Brief-manning thresholds – How excessive do you have to energy them as much as?
    • 1d: Ice in comparison with different sorts: Dragon, Electrical, Rock
  • Half 2: Shadow and common Mamoswine as Floor attackers
    • 2a: Floor-type charts
    • 2b: When is Floor required, and Floor in comparison with different sorts
  • Half 3: Future issues – Will Shadow Mamoswine ever be outclassed?

In case you’re on desktop and wish to soar to a specific half, search “Half X” or “Half 1c”. There’s additionally “Half X Verdict”, that are extra condensed however nonetheless considerably elaborate sections with extra recommendation.

Now you can comply with me (@teban54) on Twitter!


Simply in case anybody nonetheless wants it… Until you clearly know what you’re doing, don’t purify these Shadow Swinubs. Simply don’t.

So long as you care about how effectively they carry out in raids, even a 0% Shadow Mamoswine is a a lot, significantly better raid attacker than 100% Purified Mamoswine, in the event that they’re powered as much as the identical stage.

Half 1: Shadow and common Mamoswine as Ice attackers

This half ought to sound acquainted for many veteran gamers, however I nonetheless intention to supply new insights with cross-type comparisons and, for the primary time, short-manning threshold analyses.

Half 1a: Ice-type Charts

[Part 1a TL;DR] Shadow Mamoswine guidelines Ice sorts. Common Mamoswine is technically worse than Galarian Darmanitan now on common, but it surely’s extra constant and far more accessible, and nonetheless one in every of the prime non-shadow ice attackers.

Ice attackers ranked by their common in-raid efficiency, utilizing ASE, ASE with dodging, and ASTTW.

Shadow Mamoswine (Powder Snow/Avalanche) dominates this chart, and it shouldn’t be shocking. For the time being, no different Ice sorts even come shut.

Common Mamoswine‘s place on the chart, nonetheless, might catch a number of of you without warning. It’s nonetheless among the many prime non-shadow ice attackers, however now not the clear-cut #1 – Galarian Darmanitan now offers it some fierce competitors. So let’s take a more in-depth look…

Common Mamoswine vs. Galarian Darmanitan

Mamoswine vs. Galarian Darmanitan (L40 finest buddies)

Galarian Darmanitan does outperform Mamoswine within the majority of conditions. This shouldn’t be shocking, because it does have 2% higher ER and 9% higher DPS, regardless of being glassier with an arguably worse typing.

Does this imply common Mamoswine is ineffective now? Completely not!

  • The distinction between them could be very small, and as you’ll see later, Mamoswine does all the things G-Darmanitan does completely advantageous.
  • Mamoswine is extra constant. There are about 10% of circumstances the place G-Darmanitan does actually badly (a mixture of heavy-hitting strikes and typing benefits).
    • Mamoswine does face its personal disadvantages (Water and Grass strikes), however these occur much less typically and are normally from T3 bosses.
    • Distribution plots, or “how significantly better is Mamoswine in every case”, will be discovered here.
  • And naturally, Galarian Darmanitan is method much less accessible. Positive, some gamers might have made use of the 2021 occasion the place Galarian Darumaka was spawning all over the place, however exterior of that, the one technique to get it presently is from 7km eggs, with a hatch fee of 1.2%. It’s actually not getting a CD Basic anytime quickly, for positive.

Half 1b: When is ice required?

[Part 1b TL;DR] Solely 2 legendaries (Rayquaza and Landorus) NEED Ice, out of 13 which are weak to Ice. Outdoors of these and Electrical/Flying (Zapdos, Thundurus), even Shadow Mamoswine falls behind different shadows.

I’ll reply this with a rehash of the abstract desk introduced on the very starting:

A few of it’s possible you’ll suppose quite a lot of raid bosses are double weak to Ice. In truth, as soon as upon a time, I assumed so too. However probably not…

Out of many raid bosses you need to use Ice sorts towards, solely 2 legendaries (and 4 megas) are literally double weak to Ice:

  • T5s: Rayquaza, Landorus (each kinds)
  • Megas: Salamence, Sceptile, Garchomp, Rayquaza

These are the one circumstances the place Ice sorts are the one viable counters. 2 T5 raids, out of 13 presently launched.

The primary position of Ice sorts in T5 raids is anti-Dragon and anti-Flying. However Ice is rarely the one counter there, and actually, it’s typically weaker than most different counters. And sure, that applies to even Shadow Mamoswine – it’s weaker than shadow Dragon, shadow Electrical, and Xurkitree.

  • One particular case the place Shadow Mamoswine regains the crown is towards Electrical/Flying bosses, aka Zapdos and Thundurus. That is because of Electrical not being allowed, and Rock having no good shadows but.
  • Facet observe: Though Ice can also be Tremendous Efficient towards Floor and Grass, they’re virtually meaningless right here. The one mono Floor-type boss we’ve is Groudon (non-Primal), which has Hearth Blast and Photo voltaic Beam that destroy Mamoswine.

Ice does stand out higher in mega raids, with the 4 bosses having each amount and high quality, particularly Rayquaza. Nevertheless, most individuals received’t be doing the non-Rayquaza mega raids greater than a handful occasions.

Half 1c: Brief-manning thresholds – How excessive do you have to energy them as much as?

[Part 1c TL;DR] L30 Common Mamoswines already care for T5 Rayquaza and Landorus duos. However L50 Shadow Mamoswines can DUO MEGA Rayquaza (with out climate enhance)! You actually need XLs, although. Additionally, L40 Shadow Mamoswines can solo Mega Garchomp if you happen to dodge, and duo Zekrom.

Now that we all know Mamoswine (particularly common) is extra of a Rayquaza and Landorus specialist, it’s possible you’ll recall one factor… Each of those raids are straightforward duos. In truth, two gamers utilizing Degree 30 common Mamoswine can comfortably duo Rayquaza, each Landorus kinds and Mega Salamence/Sceptile/Garchomp with out friendship bonus.

This raises a query: Is powering up high-level Mamoswines actually that mandatory? Is my mud higher spent on one thing else (like shadow dragons), if stage 30 non-shadow Mamos appear sufficient?

So, for the primary time in my articles, I’m operating an estimate of “when do you cross the short-manning threshold”.

With finest good friend bonus and no climate enhance, if you happen to run 6 Mamoswines of the identical variety:

  • L30 Common -> L40 Common will get you:
    • (Trio -> Duo) Thundurus Incarnate, Naganadel, Mega Venusaur
    • (4-man -> Trio) Latias, Latios (T5), Arceus
  • L40 Common -> L40 Shadow will get you:
    • (Trio -> Duo) Zapdos, Giratina Origin, Thundurus Therian, Tornadus Incarnate, Zekrom, Regidrago, Galarian Articuno, Eternatus, Extremely Necrozma
    • (4-man -> Trio) Groudon (T5), Lugia
    • (5-man -> 4-man) Mega Latios
    • (6-man -> 5-man) Mega Latias
  • L40 Shadow -> L50 Shadow will get you:
    • (Duo -> “Assisted Solo”) Rayquaza, Mega Garchomp, Mega Pidgeot
      • Mega Garchomp true solo could also be attainable! (1.01 estimator)
    • (Trio -> Duo) Giratina Altered, Tornadus Therian, Yveltal, Galarian Zapdos, Mega Rayquaza

Bolded are bosses which are finest countered by (common/shadow) Mamoswine.

Word that these are solely base on Pokebattler estimators averaged throughout all boss movesets. For a lot of of them, the brink will be crossed earlier with a better moveset, or unable to be met with a more durable movest – examples beneath.

Many of those shortmans will be achieved by different counters, however there are two that actually stand out. Duoing Mega Rayquaza? Soloing Mega Garchomp? Signal me up!

  • One different notable case is Zekrom duo, the place Shadow Mamoswine is extra dependable than Shadow Salamence/Dragonite. I received’t go into particulars right here.

Now we’ll take a barely extra detailed look into each, to see how straightforward they’re, and whether or not you actually need full L50 groups. TL;DR:

  • Mega Rayquaza will be duoed, however you want XLs – the brink is near L50.
  • Mega Garchomp will be soloed reliably at L40 if you happen to dodge. No-dodging L40 can solo Sand Tomb, and Outrage relies on quick transfer; L50 solidifies these two, however can’t do Earthquake or Hearth Blast with out dodging.

Mega Rayquaza Duo

(I didn’t have time to run extra sophisticated sims. Thus, the outcomes right here are usually not assured to play out exactly as such in apply. Please examine Pokebattler your self for extra correct outcomes.)

First, I’ll point out an necessary caveat. Pokebattler does have Mega Rayquaza now, but it surely makes use of unnerfed stats. Most legendaries get a 9% nerf on prime of that, however Primal Kyogre and Groudon solely obtained a 3% nerf. No matter how Niantic offers with Mega Rayquaza’s stats, the precise raid will possible be simpler than what Pokebattler tells you.

The next desk lists the Estimator values for unnerfed Mega Ray, and my very own estimate of a 3% nerf (merely multiplying the estimator by 0.97).

Mamo stage Unnerfed 3% nerf
L30 common 2.93 2.84
L40 common 2.50 2.43
L40 shadow 2.25 2.18
L50 shadow 1.97 1.91

Sure, you learn that proper – Mega Rayquaza is a Mega Legendary raid that CAN be duoed! However provided that each of you may have SIX L50 Shadow Mamoswines (and are finest buddies).

Nevertheless, bear in mind if Mega Ray has Outrage. With out dodging, L50 Shadow Mamo will get you an estimator round 2.10 towards the Outrage movesets (even with 3% nerf). The excellent news is, reasonable dodging will get you again to the duo vary.

Sadly, on this case even a L40 shadow workforce doesn’t make the reduce. Even if you happen to select the best moveset (DT/AA) and apply 3% nerf, you continue to get 2.01.

The excellent news is a Mega Rayquaza TRIO is pretty straightforward! Even 3 gamers with L30 common Mamoswines can defeat Mega Ray, as longa as they’re finest buddies and dodge Outrage.

Here’s a Pokebattler hyperlink set to L50 with finest buddies.

Mega Garchomp Solo

This one is definitely simpler, however relies on Garchomp’s moveset and your dodging.

In case you dodge, a workforce of L40 Shadow Mamoswines can already solo all movesets.

In case you don’t dodge… Earthquake and Hearth Blast can’t be soloed even at L50. However Sand Tomb (the best) will be soloed at L40, MS/Outrage is okay at L40, and DT/Outrage barely falls out (1.03). Degree 50 Shadow Mamoswines can reliably solo Outrage and Sand Tomb units.

Here’s a Pokebattler hyperlink set to L50.

Half 1d: Ice in comparison with different sorts

[Part 1d TL;DR] Shadow Mamoswine is worse than shadow Dragon and Electrical attackers, in addition to Xurkitree and Zekrom. But it surely’s forward of all Rock sorts, and nonetheless a top-tier possibility general (probably the most accessible of all these). Common Mamoswine is worse than non-legendary Dragon, Rock and Electrical sorts (Dragonite, Rhyperior, Electivire/Magnezone), and is extra like a filler if you happen to don’t have 6 others.

Outdoors of Rayquaza and Landorus raids, Ice sorts face numerous competitors of their foremost roles:

  • Anti-Dragon: Additionally carried out by Dragon (and Fairy) sorts
  • Anti-Flying: Additionally carried out by Electrical and Rock sorts
    • Electrical can’t do Zapdos and Thundurus
    • (Rock can’t do Galarian Zapdos)

On this part, we’ll evaluate each common and Shadow Mamoswine to those foremost opponents.

Ice vs. Drago

Ice and Dragon attackers ranked by their common in-raid efficiency, utilizing ASE, ASE with dodging, and ASTTW.

Shadow Mamoswine is worse than Shadow dragons (Salamence and Dragonite), however sometimes higher than non-shadow Dragon sorts, together with Rayquaza. That is additional validated with pairwise comparisons proven beneath.

  • L50 Shadow Mamoswine > L40 shadow dragons. That is necessary contemplating Swinub XLs are usually extra widespread than Dratini XLs and particularly Bagon XLs. Comparability plots here.

Common Mamoswine is worse than all good non-shadow dragons, at the same time as “low” as Dragonite, sadly.

General, Shadow Mamoswine remains to be a really robust anti-Dragon counter and a comparatively inexpensive one, even when technically not the most effective. Common Mamoswine, nonetheless, is essentially a filler possibility that’s finest used if you happen to don’t have 6 devoted dragons.

Listed here are the comparability plots:

Shadow Mamoswine vs. Shadow Salamence, Shadow Dragonite, Rayquaza (utilizing the most effective between Breaking Swipe and Outrage), and Dragonite (L40 finest buddies)

Ice vs. Electrical vs. Rock

Ice, Electrical and Rock attackers ranked by their common in-raid efficiency, utilizing ASE, ASE with dodging, and ASTTW.

The order usually goes like this:

  1. Electrical Legendaries & Shadows (Xurkitree, Shadow Electivire/Magnezone, FB Zekrom)
  2. Shadow Mamoswine
  3. Shadow Tyranitar, Rampardos, Rhyperior
  4. Electrical Non-legendaries (Electivire, Magnezone)
  5. Mamoswine
  6. Different Rocks (Gigalith, Tyranitar)

(Tyrantrum and Terrakion are omitted on the chart for readability, however they’re round Electivire.)

On common, when Electrical can be utilized, Shadow Mamoswine is worse than premium Electrical sorts, however above all Rock sorts. When Electrical can’t be used, Shadow Mamoswine turns into the #1 counter. This is applicable to Zapdos and Thundurus raids.

  • L50 Shadow Mamoswine > L40 premium electrics, and Swinub XL is probably the most accessible one amongst these. Comparability plots here.

Common Mamoswine nonetheless fall behind the most effective non-legendary choices of different sorts, similar to Rampardos and Electivire. In case you lack these choices, a non-shadow Mamoswine is an efficient filler.

  • Even L50 common Mamoswine nonetheless falls behind L40 Rampardos and Rhyperior. Comparability plots here.

Comparisons with L40 Shadow Mamoswine:

Shadow Mamoswine vs. Shadow Electivire, Zekrom (Fusion Bolt), Shadow Tyranitar and Rampardos (L40 finest buddies)

I didn’t embody Xurkitree and Shadow Magnezone with a purpose to cut back the variety of charts. They’ve comparable form as Shadow Electivire, with Xurkitree being higher than it and Shadow Magnezone being worse. All three are usually nonetheless above Shadow Mamoswine.

Word that I’d contemplate Shadow Mamoswine vs Zekrom a draw, however extra in Zekrom’s favor as a result of estimator.

Half 1 Verdict: Ice Mamoswine

Mamoswine (and later its shadow) as an Ice sort have all the time been considered massively meta-relevant since Day 1, and amongst Ice sorts alone, it actually deserves it. It’s the most effective Rayquaza and Landorus slayer by definition, and 6 XL Shadow Mamoswines may even allow a MEGA Rayquaza duo (plus Mega Garchomp solo and Zekrom duo). Outdoors of its sort, Shadow Mamoswine stays a top-tier anti-Dragon and anti-Flying counter, although not #1.

Nevertheless, there are a number of downsides that aren’t steadily acknowledged, particularly for common Mamoswine. Inside its personal sort, Galarian Darmanitan now barely edges it out. When in comparison with others, even non-legendaries like Dragonite, Rampardos/Rhyperior and Electivire/Magnezone come on prime, generally by rather a lot. The Rayquaza and Landorus duos, which do require Ice, are really easy that even L30 common Mamoswine groups do the job.

I do suppose everybody ought to have a workforce of wild-caught L30-35 common Mamoswine on the minimal. However if you happen to’re investing stardust and particularly XL candies as we speak, all sources ought to go into the shadow.

A number of Shadow Mamoswines will be interesting for a lot of several types of gamers, whether or not you need the theoretical aim of 6 finest of every sort, or sensible investments that may provide help to in a lot of raids, even when they’re not the finest. In truth, constructing a Shadow Mamoswine workforce is probably going a extra sensible and cheaper possibility than a shadow Dragon workforce AND a shadow Electrical workforce.

In the end, you don’t NEED to speculate closely into L50 Shadow Mamoswine groups, however there are certainly many good causes for powering them up.

Half 2: Shadow and common Mamoswine as Floor attackers

Now this is the half that quite a lot of you might not be aware of. Traditionally, Mamoswine had been caught with Bulldoze for many of its time in PoGO, and the transfer is horrible in each PvE and PvP. It was solely lower than half a yr in the past when Mamoswine obtained Excessive Horsepower as a everlasting transfer pool addition throughout a GBL replace, and it has made main impacts in numerous battle codecs. For raids, particularly…

Half 2a: Floor-type Charts

[Part 2a TL;DR] Shadow Mamoswine is usually the most effective non-mega Floor, being barely forward of Precipice Blades Groudon in most sensible circumstances, but it surely has some notable typing disadvantages. Common Mamoswine is much behind Groudon, however inside an entire pack of very comparable Floor sorts beneath that (Landorus-T, Garchomp, Excadrill, Mamoswine itself, Rhyperior)

Floor attackers ranked by their common in-raid efficiency, utilizing ASE, ASE with dodging, and ASTTW.

“Groudon higher than Shadow Mamoswine in Estimator?” Truly, no. From a more in-depth look that I’ll current beneath, Shadow Mamoswine is a greater Floor attacker than Precipice Blades Groudon in most sensible conditions. This implies it’s the finest non-“mega” Floor sort.

  • Reality: Mud-Slap/Excessive Horsepower is presently the most effective non-exclusive Floor-type moveset, as illustrated by u/Elastic_Space‘s metric, Moveset Particular Energy (MSP). Sure, it’s higher than Earth Energy.

Common Mamoswine additionally obtained an enormous boon with Excessive Horsepower. Though it’s nonetheless method behind PB Groudon, it now joins the “pack” of 5 Floor sorts with comparable efficiency: Landorus (Therian), Garchomp, Excadrill, Mamoswine itself, and Rhyperior. All of them are completely nice at fulfilling Floor-type duties.

  • The order I gave is a bit completely different from the chart, for a number of causes. See sections beneath.

It’s necessary to notice that as a result of its Ice subtyping, each types of Mamoswine have a scientific typing drawback towards sorts that you just anticipate a Floor attacker to counter (Hearth, Metal, Rock, plus Combating protection strikes). This level is elaborated on this evaluation (excerpt screenshot). It’s one of many “issues” that hamper Shadow Mamoswine’s efficiency as a Floor attacker beneath its theoretical ER/DPS values.

Shadow Mamoswine vs. Groudon

I first did this comparability when writing my Primal Groudon evaluation. In truth, I’ll current the identical comparability chart and the identical explanations as final time:

Groudon vs. Shadow Mamoswine (L40 finest buddies)

Detailed explanations are within the Primal Groudon analysis (right here’s an excerpt screenshot if you happen to don’t wish to learn the total article). I’ll copy over the TL;DR:

Shadow Mamoswine is mainly higher. It performs the “conventional” obligation of a Floor attacker higher than Groudon does. Aside from that, generally it does actually badly as a result of typing disadvantages, however then Groudon isn’t the highest counter both.

  • Here is a line chart that exhibits all Floor attackers, however solely when Floor is the most effective attacking sort towards the boss (largely electrics and double weaknesses). On this chart, Shadow Mamoswine clearly comes out forward of Groudon.

It must be famous that the distinction just isn’t large – sometimes 5%, or generally much less.

Common Mamoswine vs. different Floor attackers

(Skippable within the curiosity of time)

Non-shadow Mamoswine clearly can’t contact its personal shadow self nor Precipice Blades Groudon (although it’s fairly similar to Earthquake Groudon, which we’ll omit right here). But it surely’s similar to most different distinguished Floor attackers: Landorus (Therian), Garchomp, Excadrill, Mamoswine itself, and Rhyperior. How does Mamoswine evaluate to every of them?

Mamoswine vs. Landorus (Therian), Garchomp, Excadrill and Rhyperior (L40 finest buddies)

FWIW, the ER and DPS numbers of all these choices are proven here.


  • Landorus-T appear to be simply higher than Mamoswine (it additionally has larger DPS and TDO).
  • Garchomp‘s foremost benefit is its bulk and good typing (particularly towards Hearth). It really has decrease DPS than Mamoswine, although larger ER. I’d nonetheless contemplate Garchomp higher general, however the circumstances the place it shines are the place you sometimes don’t wish to use Floor sorts to start with.
  • Excadrill is a glass-cannon model of Mamoswine, with the identical ER, larger DPS, and even a number of the identical drawbacks that Mamoswine face. Whereas its Metal typing supplies some good resistances, it suffers from an identical quantity of typing drawback as Mamoswine (Hearth, Combating, Floor). Most of my simulation plots present them as very shut, for an excellent motive.
  • Rhyperior has the bottom uncooked energy, and depends on its bulk much more than Garchomp does. I’d say it’s the “worst” of the group, however nonetheless completely practical with solely a small distinction.
  • Word that Mamoswine’s typing drawback exhibits up in all of them besides Excadrill. In 10% of all circumstances, Mamoswine simply collapses.

General, if I have to give you a rating, I’d say: Landorus-T ≈ Garchomp >= Excadrill ≈ Mamoswine > Rhyperior.

Half 2b: When is floor required?

[Part 2b TL;DR] 6 legendaries can solely be countered by Floor (electrics and double weaknesses), a surprisingly excessive quantity – nearly half of Floor‘s use circumstances. Nevertheless, at any time when one other sort can be utilized, Shadow Mamoswine falls behind different shadows and legendaries, whereas common Mamoswine turns into worse than even many price range choices.

Now let’s take a look at the second half of the abstract desk:

Consider it or not, there are literally far more “should use Floor circumstances than “should use Ice” – 6 legendaries. Two double weaknesses (Heatran, Nihilego), however the remainder are all Electrical bosses that may (nearly) solely be countered by Floor: Raikou, Regieleki, Tapu Koko, Xurkitree, Mega Manectric.

  • I used to be really shocked to see this quantity is nearly as a lot as different present T5 bosses weak to Floor (8). In different phrases, almost half the time when you’ll be able to convey out Floor sorts in any respect, it’s the one possibility! Wow. I’m actually shocked.

Here is a line chart that exhibits all Floor attackers, however solely when Floor is the most effective attacking sort towards the boss (largely electrics and double weaknesses). On this situation, Shadow Mamoswine clearly comes out forward of Groudon. There are additionally minor modifications within the scores of different Floor attackers, most notably Garchomp getting worse and common Mamoswine getting considerably higher.

Floor in comparison with different sorts

[dround] assaults do have huge protection, with the ability to hit 5 sorts for Tremendous Efficient injury. Nevertheless, towards the 4 sorts apart from Electrical, different attacking sorts are a lot stronger than Floor sorts (even Shadow Mamoswine).

The primary enemies that Floor sorts faces are Combating and Water, adopted by Hearth, Metal and Rock in some circumstances.

On this case, Shadow Mamoswine does even worse than it did as an Ice sort earlier, as stuff that outclass it now embody:

  • Shadows (Machamp, Moltres/Blaziken, Swampert)
  • Prime legendaries (Terrakion, Reshiram, Kyogre)
  • Even some non-legendaries (Metagross, Rampardos, Rhyperior)

The closest comparisons are Lucario/Conkeldurr (prime non-legendary Combating), and Shadow Charizard (“lesser” shadow Hearth). Shadow Mamoswine remains to be higher than many non-legendaries like Machamp and Chandelure, however that’s not what you’d anticipate from a shadow, proper?

General, exterior of the “should use Floor” circumstances, Shadow Mamoswine is normally a “tier 2” counter when in comparison with different sorts, usually sitting between their prime shadow/legendary choices and non-legendaries. The energy alone is a bit underwhelming for a shadow.

Common Mamoswine… Actually disappoints, identical to most different Floor sorts. Being worse than Machamp, Gyarados, Blaziken and non-shadow SD Tyranitar is simply too unhealthy at the moment. Until you lack a workforce of a number of different sorts, Floor sorts apart from Shadow Mamoswine and Groudon are merely “should use Floor” specialists and workforce fillers.

Half 2 Verdict: Floor Mamoswine

The best way I see it, Floor attackers are very clearly divided into two tiers: Shadow Mamoswine leads the “Tier 1 Floor (with Groudon being the one contender – aka shadows and legendaries), whereas common Mamoswine is a part of the various “Tier 2 Floor“s (aka non-legendaries).

The issue is that [ground] sorts actually don’t stay up the competitors with different sorts. Each time alternate options can be utilized, Shadow Mamoswine finally ends up worse than different sorts’ Tier 1 shadows and legendaries, whereas common Mamoswine turns into effectively beneath different sorts’ Tier 2s.

Happily, there are an excellent variety of “should use Floor” raids to justify their worth considerably – nearly half of Floor‘s use circumstances presently. Shadow Mamoswine is #1 or #2 when that occurs.

Outdoors of these, individuals who will discover probably the most worth in Shadow Mamoswine (Floor) and Groudon possible:

  • Don’t have too many devoted top-tier groups constructed;
  • Favor to make use of distinctive counters;
  • Get sunny climate enhance rather a lot; OR
  • Can coordinate with a good friend to run a Primal Groudon within the occasion (which supplies the 30% mega enhance even when it’s not presently on the sector)

The elephant within the room is that you just don’t must construct a Shadow Mamoswine solely as a Floor attacker! When you construct it as an Ice sort, you’ll be able to unlock a second charged transfer or use Charged TMs to get your self a prime Floor attacker free of charge! It might need been more durable to justify the funding as a Floor sort alone, however treating it as a “Floor-type bonus” from a prime Ice attacker makes this sound like a no brainer.

Half 3: Future issues – Will Shadow Mamoswine ever be outclassed?

Presumably sure!

[Part 3 TL;DR] The largest and most reasonable risk to Ice-type Shadow Mamoswine is Galarian Darmanitan Zen, which will likely be straight up higher if it retains the present GM moveset, however there’s quite a lot of uncertainty in implementation. On the Floor facet, many shadows can surpass Shadow Mamoswine, in addition to Landorus-T with a future signature transfer.

Future and speculative Ice-type attackers

Future and speculative Ice attackers ranked by ASE, ASE with dodging, and ASTTW.

I did an in depth look on future Ice sorts within the Kyurem analysis, so on this article, I’ll simply point out those who have the potential to dethrone shadow or common Mamoswine.

Galarian Darmanitan (Zen Mode) has the best potential, by far. It has larger base assault than Mewtwo, and is already assigned Ice Fang/Avalanche within the present Recreation Grasp. Clearly that may change, but when it stays… We now have a brand new Ice king on our fingers, instantly outclassing Shadow Mamoswine by fairly a bit.

  • One other uncertainty is how the shape is carried out: everlasting type or an in-battle type change? So quite a lot of uncertainty surrounding this one.

The opposite attainable choices contain much more uncertainty: Kyurem and/or Black Kyurem with new strikes.

  • Word that there’s just one single Ice-type transfer in Kyurem’s MSG moveset that may nonetheless grow to be a quick transfer: Freeze-Dry, and that’s a slightly unlikely final result. However theoretically attainable.
  • Between Shadow Mamoswine and common Mamoswine: Kyurem with Ice quick transfer, and Black Kyurem with its present GM moveset.
  • Much like Shadow Mamoswine: Black Kyurem with Ice quick transfer.
  • Higher than Shadow Mamoswine: Black Kyurem with Ice quick transfer and signature charged transfer.

General, I actually can’t say if Shadow Mamoswine is or just isn’t future-proof but, as a result of all of it relies on how Zen Mode Darmanitans are carried out. However we’d know the reply soon-ish…?

Future and speculative Floor-type attackers

Future and speculative Floor attackers ranked by ASE, ASE with dodging, and ASTTW.

(That is mainly a rehash of the part in Primal Groudon analysis)

On the Floor facet, Shadow Mamoswine is rather a lot much less future-proof. A number of good shadows sooner or later – Shadow Groudon, Shadow Garchomp, Shadow Excadrill and Shadow Rhyperior – will likely be equal or higher. Other than Shadow Groudon, the variations with the remainder are sufficiently small that I wouldn’t fear an excessive amount of about them.

Landorus-T may additionally problem it with its signature transfer, Sandsear Storm, if it turns into OP sufficient.

Articles arising subsequent

  • Volcarona, Kleavor and Mega Pinsir: All of them as bug sorts, Volcarona as fireplace, and presumably Kleavor as rock relying on moveset. Will possible solely begin working as soon as Kleavor has been added to GM and thus Pokebattler.
  • Fast evaluation on Blast Burn Delphox for Might CD, assuming leaks are true.

Appendix: Previous analyses on different sorts

  • Bug: Bug Out
  • Darkish/Ghost: Gholdengo & DIB Melmetal
    • For Tyranitar speculations: Tyranitar CD Basic
    • For Giratina-O comparisons: Shadow Pressure Giratina-O
  • Dragon: Breaking Swipe Rayquaza
    • For full future attackers: Mega Salamence
  • Electrical: Reshiram & Zekrom with Fusion strikes
    • Mega Mewtwo Y (Thunderbolt) information is improper
    • For Xurkitree comparability: Bug Out
  • Fairy: Togekiss CD
    • For full future attackers and detailed fairy-dragon comparisons: Mega Gardevoir
  • Combating: Shadow Mewtwo (Half 2 Terrakion part), with a number of future and speculative attackers
    • For future megas: September GBL replace (Mega Mewtwo X information is improper)
    • Additionally Galarian birds, Extremely Beasts & Sneasler
  • Hearth: Shadow Sceptile & Blaziken
    • For extra on Reshiram and Zekrom: Reshiram & Zekrom with Fusion strikes
    • Mega Mewtwo Y (Flamethrower) information is improper
    • For full future attackers: Gen 3 mega starters
  • Flying: Staraptor CD
  • Grass: Tsareena
    • For extra on Shadow Sceptile: Shadow Sceptile & Blaziken
    • For full future attackers: Kartana and Gen 3 mega starters
    • For Chesnaught-specific plots: Chesnaught CD
  • Floor: This text
    • For extra on Groudon: Primal Kyogre & Groudon
  • Ice: This text
    • For full future attackers: Kyurem & Mega Glalie
    • Mega Mewtwo Y (Ice Beam) information is improper
  • Psychic: Mega Gardevoir
    • For Shadow Mewtwo with IVs: Shadow Mewtwo
    • For full future attackers: September replace/Psychic Spectacular
    • Mega Mewtwo information is improper
  • Rock: Tyranitar CD Basic
    • For full future attackers: Gigalith CD
  • Metal: Gholdengo & DIB Melmetal
    • For full future attackers: Mega Aggron
  • Water: Mega Slowbro CD
    • For extra on Primal Kyogre: Primal Kyogre & Groudon
    • For full future attackers: Gen 3 mega starters

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